‘Everything’s negotiable Christopher’: Seymour says National finance minister ‘no longer tenable’

Act leader David Seymour believes it is “no longer tenable” for National to demand the finance portfolio in Government.

Seymour says National ministers do not have a ‘monopoly on competence’ and Act may have been “a little bit kind” to National in the last term.

In a stinging rebuttal to Christopher Luxon claiming National keeping the finance portfolio is “non-negotiable”, Seymour says: “Everything’s negotiable Christopher”.

He has made the case for himself or New Zealand First’s Shane Jones to become the caretaker Finance Minister ahead of coalition deals being finalised.

Jones is keeping mum on who might hold the finance portfolio in the next Government, but says Luxon must learn voters want political collaboration and warns the National leader against “overplay[ing] his hand as to how powerful his position actually is”.

Nicola Willis is among the senior National ministers not returning to Parliament after the election alongside Paul Goldsmith, Chris Bishop and Speaker of the House Gerry Brownlee.

The absence of Willis, Goldsmith and Bishop, who must resign as ministers 28 days after the election, will require a reallocation of many key ministerial portfolios.

National MPs Paul Goldsmith and Nicola Willis have not been re-elected. Photo / Dean Purcell

The most high-profile portfolio is finance, which Willis holds alongside economic growth and social investment.

Bishop has responsibility for several meaty portfolios including housing, infrastructure, transport and associate finance, while Goldsmith holds an extraordinary 10 portfolios including defence, justice and the public service.

With the shape of the next Government uncertain as special votes are counted and before formal coalition negotiations, the Government enters a caretaker mode.

This allows its core functions to continue while ministers tend to avoid going beyond the basics as they await a new Government.

However, with a Government unlikely to be formed by the time Willis, Bishop and Goldsmith have to resign, Luxon may need to allocate portfolios to other ministers until roles in the next Government are confirmed.

Willis’ impending departure has sparked a debate about who would be her successor. Luxon has repeatedly claimed it was “non-negotiable” that finance would be held by a National MP.

However, Seymour has spoken publicly about his interest in the role, saying he believed he would be a capable Finance Minister.

Asked who should hold the role in a caretaker capacity after Willis’ departure, Seymour told the Herald it should be held by one of the Government’s remaining associate finance ministers, which include himself and Jones.

“All politics aside and you were just managing an organisation, then the obvious person to fulfil a role would be the person who had been deputising in the role,” Seymour said.

“That’s what happens in just about any organisation when a person falls over … ask Shane Reti" – a reference to former National MP Reti briefly acting as National leader after Judith Collins was ousted.

Act leader David Seymour speaks on election night alongside fellow MPs. Photo / Dean Purcell

Seymour, who thought the role should not be shared, believed his party’s record of publishing alternative budgets and fiscal plans proved his competence.

However, he was more concerned with how the next Government managed spending.

“Whether or not I end up doing it is secondary to whether the Government has the right direction.

“I’d rather it wasn’t me if we were going to do the right things than have the role but be unable to do the right things.”

On Luxon’s insistence finance would stay with National, Seymour felt that position “is no longer tenable”.

“The National Party needs to recognise they are not a National government with two inconvenient bolt-ons; they are now a coalition.

“If anything, we’ve been a little bit kind in the last three years, but the last three years have shown that National ministers do not have a monopoly on competence in this Government.

“I think there’s been a tone from the National Party that only National ministers can do serious things, which really was crystallised in Chris [Luxon’s] unfortunate comments about us being yahoos and numpties but I think what’s become clear in the last three years is that ministers from Act, and dare I say it, New Zealand First, are actually very capable.”

Asked how he responds to Luxon’s non-negotiable declaration, Seymour replied: “Everything’s negotiable, Christopher”.

Jones was reluctant to give a view on who should be the Finance Minister as the country waited for the final vote count, although he acknowledged the position he and Seymour had held.

“Naturally, our two parties reflect the different priorities in terms of the appropriate fiscal mix of programmes going forward but the reason why Winston and I are waiting for the special [votes] is to determine, what actually is the nature of the leverage.

“But the two remaining people who have experience and how the role has worked or in my case, have had genuine, heavy roles in the economy means that it’s not a bad idea.

“After the specials are tallied, we will focus on government formation, not before. National needs to let the teardrops dry before much can happen.”

NZ First deputy leader Shane Jones won't give a view on who should be finance minister. Photo / Corey Fleming

Jones echoed Seymour in his warning for Luxon ahead of potential coalition negotiations and a second term for the three parties.

“It’s very important that whatever decisions the leader of the National Party is making, he doesn’t overplay his hand as to how powerful this position actually is.

“The country has clearly identified that mutual respect, collaboration, is very important, and that’s a lesson that the leader of the National Party must take on board.”

In 2023, National signed separate coalition agreements with Act and NZ First, although the two smaller parties were required to agree to the other’s agreement while reserving the ability to invoke an agree-to-disagree clause.

Asked if he would support a similar arrangement in a future coalition, Seymour said he had argued in 2023 for just one agreement between the parties and indicated he would push for the same if the three parties could form a government.

The three governing parties may need Opportunity to hold a stable majority in the House, particularly if the special votes take seats from the right bloc. On the night, the right bloc held a two-seat majority.

Seymour accepted it wouldn’t be “ideal” to govern with a one-seat majority but said it could be necessary if Opportunity was too much to stomach.

“Everything has a price, and the question is, ‘What would it take to get them on board?’.”

Opportunity leader Qiulae Wong today reaffirmed her position that any coalition partner would have to agree to its bottom lines, which included:

• A phased banning of bottom trawling.
• Recommitting to the Paris climate accord.
• Limiting lobbying and political donations

While there would be room for National to move on most of Wong’s bottom lines, Act and NZ First would not accept them easily, given they both oppose the Paris climate accord and banning bottom trawling.

Asked about the likelihood of a deal with Opportunity, Seymour said: “This is the same person who says there should be more give-and-take and more collaboration and more working across the aisle, so it’s a bit difficult to work out what their true position is”.

Adam Pearse is the Deputy Political Editor and part of the NZ Herald’s Press Gallery team based at Parliament in Wellington. He has worked for NZME since 2018, reporting for the Northern Advocate in Whangārei and the Herald in Auckland.