Follow the podcast on

Kerre Woodham: We need to be open to discussion about our nuclear stance

Author: Kerre Woodham ,
Publish Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2026, 11:50am

Defence Minister Chris Penk opened the door, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon slammed it shut. Chris Penk was at the Shangri La Dialogue, an annual security forum held in Singapore where defence ministers and military chiefs from across the Asia Pacific gather every year.

Asked whether New Zealand might ease its rules to allow nuclear powered submarines into its waters, given that Australia's slated to get three nuclear powered subs as part of the AUKUS deal, Chris Penk said, “We don't have any official shift in our no nukes policy, but the subject," he said, “is worth chatting about." He said New Zealanders are sceptical of nuclear weapons, but it's quite a different proposition when it comes to nuclear propulsion.

And that is quite true. New Zealand doesn't allow nuclear propelled vessels into its waters, whether they carry nuclear weapons or not. We don't allow nuclear weapons, we don't allow nuclear propulsion, but we do allow nuclear technology in this country. Radioactive isotopes are used to diagnose conditions and treat cancers. Our universities and research centres use small scale radioactive sources for research, and various industries use nuclear gauges and X ray technology for quality control, safety testing, and measurement. So it's not like we're as pure as the driven snow. We don't allow nuclear weapons, sure, but nuclear propulsion, surely you'd put that in the same category as X ray machines.

We seem to be okay with a little bit of nuclear energy and technology – what about a little wee bit more when it comes to propulsion? No way," says Christopher Luxon. We're going to remain purer than the driven snow and we will maintain our no nuke stance."

CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Essentially, we've got a long-standing position from '87. It's across the political spectrum. All New Zealanders feel very strongly about the nuclear free position.

HEATHER DU PLESSIS-ALLAN: No, they don't.

LUXON: No, they do. They do. And whether it's nuclear propulsion or nuclear armed, that's something that we're not up for and we won't be changing.

Right. So this gentleman's not for turning, to misquote Margaret Thatcher. “All New Zealanders feel strongly about this," he said. “No, they don't," said Heather, filling in for Mike. No, they don't. I'm kind of with Heather. I couldn't have been more proud as a kid when New Zealand took on this David and Goliath stance against America. “No nukes," we said. And the world applauded and we took the moral high ground and caused strains with our relationship with the United States, the UK, and Australia. There were tensions, but my god, we were noble and we were holy and we were righteous. David Lange and the fourth Labour Government put us on the world stage with our no nuke stance.

All very well and good, but there will be some of you who weren't even born when that was happening. The world has moved on. The world is a vastly different place than it was 40 years ago. I think we have to be open to a discussion about, A, our stance around nuclear weapons, B, around our stance on nuclear propulsion when it comes to armed forces around the world, and C, when it comes to nuclear energy. It makes sense. If the Greens are putting up roadblocks to more hydro dams, we cannot depend on solar energy alone. Open your curtains, look out the window. We need to have a constant, steady, reliable source of energy and we need to be able to discuss where that comes from.

We need in this crazy world to have strong defensive alliances. And if that means allowing nuclear propelled ships, submarines into our waters, I'm okay with that. I'm not as righteous as Christopher Luxon seems to think New Zealanders are. Where do you stand on this one? A little bit more nukes? I mean, we already have some because we understand the value it brings. We understand the good it can do. What about a little bit more?